December 30, 2024 - In today's Lifetime Planning health segment, Jim Puplava and Cris Sheridan dive into Peter Attia's essential read, Outlive: The Science and Art of Longevity, exploring Attia's insights on longevity. Jim outlines the dire health threats known as the "four horsemen"—heart disease, cancer, neurodegenerative diseases, and diabetes—and shares scientifically-validated strategies to combat or even prevent these conditions. Drawing from the Blue Zones' dietary wisdom, Jim unveils the groundbreaking "Superhuman Protocol," a regimen featuring innovative techniques like oxygen therapy, red light therapy, and more, designed to not just extend life, but enhance its quality. This episode promises a wealth of knowledge that could revolutionize your approach to health and longevity.
Note: Any information discussed in today's podcast or presented below is not intended as medical advice and should not be considered a substitute for the guidance provided by a licensed healthcare professional.
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Related interviews and links:
- Peter Attia book: Outlive: The Science and Art of Longevity
- How to Live to 100 – Nick Buettner on Living the Blue Zone Way of Life
- Discussion: Infrared Saunas – Potential Benefits, Risks, and What to Look Out For
- Superhuman Protocol – The Key to Living a Strong and Healthy Life
- Dr. Mike Belkowski on Red Light Therapy and Mitochondrial Function
- The ABCs of Successful Aging
- Dr. Sircus on the Power of Oxygen and Hydrogen Therapy
- Eat Wild and Grow Your Own Medicine
- Why Movement Is Medicine
- Oura Ring. Smart Ring for Fitness, Stress, Sleep & Health.
- WHOOP | Unlock Your Potential
Transcript
Cris Sheridan:
Well, as many of you long-term listeners know, every Monday we conduct our Lifetime Planning segment where we discuss a wide range of different financial planning issues. Part of that segment that we do here on Mondays is talking about health-related topics. And that's because, well, both Jim and I do a tremendous amount of reading. Jim is reading perhaps four or five books at any moment for financial planning, asset management, understanding the macro background. Many of the authors we speak with on our show, but part of that is also doing a lot of research into health. And so we speak with a number of different health-related experts on our Monday show. But one of the things that many of our listeners continue to request is to know what is Jim reading right now or what is he doing when it comes to applying and implementing a number of these things that we discuss. So that's what we're going to discuss today: just an ultimate boomer wellness playbook, going through some of the things that you could possibly also get some ideas from on your end when it comes to helping your health and your wellness. So Jim, kick things off for us. Obviously, you do a lot of research into this area. You are exercising more than I am, I've got to admit. And I know that this all started, you know, many years back. Where did you start really your health journey when it comes to putting so much importance on personal health and doing a lot of research in this area?
Jim Puplava:
You know, Cris, this probably started at age 59. I was diagnosed with stage two prostate cancer. And for my treatment, I did a lot of research, talked to... I think I must have interviewed over 30 men. Everything from the da Vinci machine to surgery to radiation to hormones, to basically HIFU, which is high-frequency ultrasound. And I came to the conclusion that I went with proton beam radiation at Loma Linda. Now if you're not familiar with Loma Linda, it is one of the five Blue Zones in the world. Blue Zones are areas where people live into their late 90s into 100. And Loma Linda is a Seventh Day Adventist hospital. They are vegetarian. And so one of the things when I was going through my treatments, you went to classes, and they encouraged you to go to the gym every single day. So I was exercising every single day, going for long walks, working out in the gym through my nine-week radiation treatment process. They would basically give you treatments five days a week, Monday through Friday. We had a place up there, we'd drive up there on Monday and drive home Friday night. And basically, that's when I was exposed to Loma Linda. They said, "Look, we're going to heal you. But if you leave this place and you don't change what you're doing, you're going to be back here for something else." So that started my long-term journey.
Cris Sheridan:
And so for the record, you're not a Seventh Day Adventist, but you learned from their emphasis on exercise and diet and having a proper balance of each of those. And that's something all of us can implement. Whether or not any of this other information in terms of the specific technologies or various devices that we are going to discuss today will apply to you, exercise and diet are right at the top of the list. That's something we can all do. And obviously, you've been implementing that heavily over the years with, of course, a lot of continued research in this area. Let's talk about Peter Attia's work. This is someone that you've mentioned on the show a number of times. Can you just kind of sketch the basis of his work and how this applies to our health today?
Jim Puplava:
Yeah. His new book, which I highly recommend reading, it's called "Outlive: The Science and Art of Longevity." And basically, what Attia is talking about is the current medicine that we have right now he calls Medicine 2.0. And that is basically treating the symptoms. In other words, rather than prevention, they wait till the disease takes hold and then they treat the disease. And he talks about the four horsemen that plague most Americans: heart disease at the top, cancer, neurodegenerative diseases like dementia and Alzheimer's, and fourth, diabetes. And if you look at how Medicine 2.0 treats disease, they do it with three protocols: surgery, radiation, or drugs. So once again, they're treating the conditions. They're basically at the wrong end, after the disease has taken place in your body, rather than before it takes root, which is prevention. And so in his book, he talks about Medicine 3.0, which is prevention, beginning with one, exercise at the top, number two, nutrition, number three, sleep, and number four, alternative therapies. So basically, he says if you go through this and start with prevention, you can add an extra decade to your life by following this. And his number one "drug" is exercise. And that really registered with me because when I was at Loma Linda, that was constantly emphasized. They wanted to see, in fact, my doctor... You know, when I'd go in for just periodic, I'd meet with my doctor once a week and he would check in. "Have you been working out? Have you been at the gym? How's your diet?" Those were two things that really they drove home into me, so when I read Attia's book, it really registered.
Cris Sheridan:
Yeah. And again, the name of his most recent book is "Outlive: The Science and Art of Longevity." And that's by Peter Attia with Bill Gifford. Highly, highly recommended book. It's a bestseller. Thirteen, almost 14,000 reviews. Looks like it's, you know, basically five stars on Amazon. So very, very good reading material there in how to implement these things and understand the four horsemen: cardiovascular disease, cancer, neurodegenerative disease, and diabetes. And unfortunately, we're seeing all of these things occur in younger and younger adults too, which is very sad. So again, you know, top of the list, exercise, most important "drug," nutrition, sleep, alternative therapies. All these things we've discussed on our show a number of times. Peter Attia goes into that in depth in his book. Let's discuss what you did after you left Loma Linda in terms of implementing some of the things that you were reading and then also doing.
Jim Puplava:
Well. One of the first things I did, Cris, is I built my own gym because they really stressed, and this is really important as you age, they always recommend weightlifting. So I built my own gym, and then I began to read more and more books on health. And one of the first people I discovered along the way was a gentleman by the name of Dr. Circus. And we've had him on the show, we interviewed him, I think, twice. And he introduced me to oxygen or EWOT, that's exercise with oxygen training. And basically, you're doing some kind of cardio activity, could be a treadmill, could be a bicycle. And as you're doing that, you have this mask where you're breathing in about 98% oxygen. He also introduced me in his book to hydrogen inhalation. So that's another aspect besides oxygen that gets this into your body and does wonders with your cells. So I started training with oxygen on my treadmill, and I would do, oh, probably half an hour of cardio brisk walk. And then I would alternate. Sometimes I would go like a month of half an hour a day of cardio brisk walk, and then I would alternate to 15 minutes of high-intensity training. Basically, a Sprint 8 program where you sprint for 30 seconds, almost running, you rest for about a minute and a half, and then you go back to sprinting, and you do that eight times in a 20-minute cycle. So along the way, doing my research here, an interesting thing is they emphasized diet in Loma Linda, and during COVID when we were in lockdowns, you didn't know if you were safe going to the store. So I was ordering basically cook-at-home meals from Green Chef. So I started out with vegetarian because I don't know how to cook vegetarian. I did not do well with vegetarian, Cris. I mean, it just actually started putting on weight. I don't know if that was because I was staying at home, I was still exercising. Then I went to... I tried even vegan, and then I tried paleo. And the thing that really worked for me was keto. And it's amazing because Dr. Sigrid, one of the foremost experts on cancer in the country, has come to the conclusion that cancer is a metabolic disease, according to Dr. Zigfried.
Cris Sheridan:
And Jim, before you move on, do you mind just really quickly explaining what a keto diet is?
Jim Puplava:
A keto diet is basically a low-carb diet with lots of fat, healthy fats, things like olive oil, nuts, avocados, lean protein. The carbs you have are mainly vegetables and fruit. So, Cris, I don't have carbs. I mean, I have lean protein. When I go to the grocery store, I go to a holistic grocery store. So everything is organic. I don't go and shop in the middle of the store that has the shelves with either cans or frozen or packaged food. I go to the outskirts. So I go to the meat and fish department first, then I head over to the produce. And so my meals at night are lean protein, and then usually I do a mix. One of my favorites is I put four or five vegetables. They make them in a package for me. Broccoli, cauliflower, orange squash, Brussels sprouts. So I have four or five vegetables, and then I mix. I also have half an avocado with my protein. And I drink sugarless green tea. That's my drink at dinner. I'll get into that in a while. But along the way, I came across something that went beyond what Dr. Circus was doing. And we had Jason Trabo on the show, the Superhuman Protocol. And basically, this involves three procedures. You spend about 15 minutes on a PMF mat. The purpose of that is to open up your cells. Your cells tend to clump together. From the PMF mat, you head to the treadmill, and you do EWOT, or you train for 15 minutes, high-intensity training for 15 minutes. And you're wearing an oxygen mask. And then you finish it off by going to red light for 15 minutes. So you're either doing red light or near-infrared light. And so it's a 45-minute protocol. And I have modified that over the last couple of years. What I do is when I'm on my PMF mat, I got a separate oxygen concentrator. So I'm getting 15 minutes of oxygen on the PMF mat and then another 15 minutes that I get on the treadmill. And it was interesting because one of the things that happens when you go through proton beam radiation is you have some scarring in your bladder. And as a result of doing oxygen, I began, there was a week where I was bleeding, and I thought, "Oh, my God, this scared the heck out of me." And then so I went to see my urologist. They did a CAT scan, they did a scoping. And when I... When she did the scoping, she said, "Oh, my God, the inside walls of my bladder were healing from the radiation scarring." So what... The blood I was seeing was called a radiation sloughing. And that's happened to me twice when I added the second oxygen concentrator with my PMF. So she said, "Whatever you're doing, keep doing it because it's working." And something else I do is I do light vibration therapy with something called the Juvent. It sends light impulses, like vibrations through your body. It's great for lymph node drainage, bone strengthening, energy. I mean, it just does a number of things. So when I'm standing in front of my light panel, I'm actually standing on the Juvent. So I'm doing two things at the same time. And the other thing that I'm adding now, I just read almost four books on this by one author. And we hope to get this author on the program because she's the world's expert in what we call WBV, whole body vibration. And there are certain exercises that you can do with these light vibration machines, but you have to get the right one. I'll talk about that in just a moment. But it's equivalent. 10 minutes on this machine is equivalent to almost an hour of weightlifting. And so. But you have to get the right type of machine. The machines that you have at the gym, these power plates, that's the wrong kind of machine to get for somebody that's a senior. And lastly, I do infrared sauna for detoxing. So that's pretty much my protocol. So the thing takes me, I don't know, I would say probably, oh, maybe an hour or two a day. So I start my... The first thing I do when I get in the gym after doing my stretches, I do the oxygen on the PMF mat. Then I go to the treadmill and I do oxygen with the mask. Then I go to the red light with the Juvent machine on the vibration. And four nights a week, I do infrared sauna. And the interesting thing about it is it's amazing what infrared sauna will do. I mean, they've been doing this in Europe for a long time. But, you know, I've read a number of studies that doing sauna four times a week for males can reduce the chance of heart stroke and dementia by over 50 to 60%. The other thing I did is I reduced alcohol. I don't know if you've realized this, but... But alcohol is a toxin because, you know, I have blood pressure, and I soon will be getting rid of it by the things I'm doing. But when you... When I had first diagnosed with blood pressure, my doctor said, "You know, Jim, it would be a good idea to have a glass of red wine at dinner because I didn't drink alcohol." And so... And of course, during COVID, it became a glass of wine every single night with dinner. And so I, I had a funny story because my doctor, and by the way, folks, I do this with a doctor who's a holistic doctor. So any type of protocol that you would get on depending on your age, I strongly recommend you don't do anything without consulting and letting your doctor know. And it was amazing because I went in to see my concierge doctor, and he said, "Basically, what the heck do you do?" And I said, "What are you talking about?" My blood pressure was 90 over 60, the lowest that it had ever been. They had taken it three times because they thought it was an incorrect reading. I said, "Well, I'm doing the same stuff I always do." I said, "Oh, I'm doing sauna." And he goes, "There you go." Because when you're in a sauna, it dilates and opens up your blood vessels. And so not only are you detoxing by sweating toxins out of your body, but you're also dilating your blood vessels, which lowers your blood pressure along with exercise.
Cris Sheridan:
And I should say, when it comes to some of the things that we're discussing, whether or not it is the benefits of using a sauna, red light therapy, or as Jim mentioned, the PEMF mat, often referred to as a PMF mat, that's pulsed electromagnetic frequency. We have spoken with a number of experts on all of these different topics. So I'll have a link out to a long list of interviews that we have done if you want more information where we go into depth on every one of these when it comes to what's a healthy dosage, a recommended dosage for your age. A number of things that are really key when you're thinking about implementing any of these, if you are. But one of the things I find really interesting, Jim, is health is obviously a very small portion of the topics that we talk about on Financial Sense News Hour, part of our Lifetime Planning segment, but it's probably the one that we get the most feedback from from listeners and as well as from clients. And I just, I find it really interesting because I know when you speak with clients regularly throughout the week to discuss, you know, how are they doing, going over their portfolio, one of the things that they want to talk with you about the most is health. This is something that most people are really thinking a lot about. And one of the unique things about you is that not only have you read two dozen, three dozen books, I don't know how many books on health and wellness, but you're also experimenting with all of these things. So if you wouldn't mind, tell us what have you learned from some of these various devices that you've used so far and which ones have you found to be the most effective for your personal use?
Jim Puplava:
Personal use? Cris, I do intermittent fasting. I don't eat until roughly about 11:00 or 12:00. I only have two meals a day, and it's a keto diet. I exercise six days a week. I do cardio six days a week. So every day I'm doing cardio. I rest one day a week. So three days a week I do weight training. And I have a funny story because as we age, the things our body can tolerate and do change. And oh, I think it was just before COVID, I think it was in the year 2019. I pulled both rotator cuffs. I was doing bar dips and probably showing off to my friends and got myself in trouble. "No pain, no gain." I threw out my left rotator cuff. Well, kept on doing stuff with my right. And I was in physical therapy for about four or five months to correct that. And most people don't know, but your wife is a physical therapist. And I'll never forget your wife coming to our home and looking at my gym and wellness center. And she goes, "What the hell are you doing?" She goes, "You need to get rid of that. You need to get rid of that machine. That machine." And so basically, most of what I do with weightlifting today is with cable machines or what they call fitness trainers. And I have a set of dumbbells that are adjustable, so no more barbell smith machine, leg extension, all this stuff where you can injure yourself. So I don't do that anymore. So three days a week, and I'm... When I start out my workout, the first thing I do is my protocol. I do the PMF, do the treadmill with the EWOT, and I do the light therapy. Now why do I do that? Well, what happens if you go through PMF? It separates your cells, you do the oxygen, and it energizes your body. And when you do the red light, it alters and creates ATP, which is your cells' energy within your mitochondria. And so I am energized after I come out of this because I do very intense exercise. So I always start with the protocol first. Then I do weightlifting three days a week. On the alternate days, I do Pilates, and I've just added vibration plate exercises like for lunges, squats, and things like that. So the type of things I do and the exercises I do are very similar to what we do in life. When you bend down to pick up something or you reach up to lift something or you're lifting things. So I try to do things that I do on a regular basis. So that's what I do six days a week, and then four days a week I do the sauna. And I've actually cut out alcohol. It was funny because my doctor said, "You really need to start this." My new doctor, he said, "You really need to cut out the alcohol, Jim. That's a toxin." Having, you know, wine on a holiday is fine. So, Cris, this is where AI comes in. So I thought, "I'm going to trick this guy." So I went to AI. I go, "Are there any drinks out there that have no sugar, low carb, low alcohol?" And what do you think I came up with?
Cris Sheridan:
Water?
Jim Puplava:
No, not quite. I came up with Corona Premier. It's a lightweight beer by Corona, has 0 sugar, 4% alcohol, and 2.6 carbs. So you know, I have a beer.
Cris Sheridan:
On Friday night, and that's AI recommended.
Jim Puplava:
That was from AI because I was searching for drinks that have no carbs, no sugar, and low in alcohol. And it came up with that. So, but anyway, the other thing I try to do also because I'm an avid reader, is stimulating brain activity. So I'm always challenging myself by reading books of all kinds of topics. So it's always different. And then my goal next year, as I used to be fluent in Spanish, I'm going to take up a language because that's something that alters your brain activity, and it challenges your brain. So these are the things that I do that I found that have worked for me. Like I said, I've tried different diets. Keto seems to be the one that works for me. Everybody's body and blood chemistry is a little different. So this is something you need to run by your doctor and find out what works for you individually and what exercise program. It depends on where you are fitness-wise. And one of the reasons I encourage you to do this, one of the saddest things I'd probably say in being in this business for over 40 years is to see people work very hard their entire life. They accumulate their life savings, and then they get to retirement, and they really can't enjoy it because of poor health. So what good is wealth without health? And as Attia talks about in his book "Outlive," start and get into prevention rather than waiting until you get a disease. In my case, I mean, I worked out periodically. Anytime my pants got tight, I would start working out again, doing cardio, and then I'd slack off. I would be on again, off again, on again, off again. And as many people, I've dealt with this throughout my adult life. As we age, our metabolism slows down, and so I'd be back and forth. And now, you know, I made it a consistent part of my life, my whole life. It's actually something I look forward to. It's a nice way to de-stress, and it's, it's kind of like my quiet, meditative time going into my gym and wellness center and going through my routine. It's just a great way to relax.
Cris Sheridan:
Yeah. So I think at a very high level, prioritizing exercise is a huge one. Like you said earlier, I believe it's Peter Attia saying that exercise is one of the most effective drugs that you can take for your health. Diet, making sure that you're prioritizing your diet for you. You have found that keto is the most effective, but of course, it will depend on the individual and their needs. Proper sleep, also a huge one. So those are really, you know, three key ones that we should all be focusing on and prioritizing. You've discussed some of the devices and some of the things that you use as part of your own playbook or protocol here that you've developed for your health and wellness. Let's say, you know, some of our listeners, maybe they don't have the ability to have their own gym, and you know, maybe they're looking for something that they could do immediately that doesn't require, you know, a significant investment, for example, in a new sauna or something along those lines. What would be some recommendations that you'd have or suggestions that people could implement?
Jim Puplava:
You know, one right off the bat would be to find a gym that even caters to seniors or has things like, you know, swimming, maybe vibration sauna. My brother attends a gym that has a sauna. So joining a gym, 30, $40 a month. But if you don't have a gym near you or one that you like, there are simple things that you can do. We talked about cardio exercise, walking. You don't, you know, walking at a brisk pace. Sometimes on treadmill, we'll alternate between brisk walks for a half an hour or 15 minutes of high-intensity training. So going for a walk, now if you're back in the Midwest or someplace where it snows during the winter, well, you might want to get yourself a treadmill. Or a big recommendation would be like a rowing machine. A rowing machine will exercise about 85% of your muscles. So you can do that, and you know, simple exercise bands and a, what I call adjustable dumbbell set. You could probably get a good adjustable dumbbell set for about 200. You can get exercise bands for an hour, and you can do virtually a lot of the same things. And if you don't have the funds to do like an EWOT machine, what I did is I got a second oxygen concentrator. It's considered a medical device. So you're probably going to have to go through your doctor and get a prescription for it. But I got that for laying on my PMF mat. And it's interesting because my wife got... Gosh, we don't know if it was the flu or whatever it was, but she had difficulty breathing, and the doctor prescribed a Z-pack, and she was still having difficulty. I put her on an oxygen concentrator. She was doing it 20 minutes a day, three times a day, and got through. Her breathing returned back to normal. So, you know, once again, oxygen. It's funny, Cris, if you buy oxygen in an EWOT machine, you don't need a doctor. You buy oxygen concentrator by itself, you need a prescription. I never quite understood that, but that's something you can do. And these red lights, there's a company out there, it's called Red Rush360. It's a small red light panel, and if you look for holidays, they mark it down. One of my clients got one for under $400. So you can do something like that. Now let me talk about vibration plates because this is something we're going to talk about. It's working, it... Oh, the incredible things it's doing with aged people. They did a study of seniors in their 90s. They put them on a vibration plate for a couple of minutes a day. After 18 days, they found that their mobility and their flexibility increased by 60%. But here's the key thing. What you use as a senior is much different than what you're going to find in most gyms, which are the big power plate dual motors. You do not want a dual motor machine. And the vibration sequence is vertical. You want a single motor vertical vibration machine. You can get those for 500 and up to maybe up to a thousand dollars. I mean, they go all the way up to 10,000. You're wasting your money. It's not really worth it. You can get a good one between 500 and 1,000. So you can do these things yourself if you want to just walk, get some exercise bands and dumbbells. That's Cris, that's about 300 bucks you're...
Cris Sheridan:
Saying for the dual motor versus the single motor. You don't want to use the dual motor if you're older. Do you mind clarifying on that?
Jim Puplava:
Yeah, it does some things. I'm not sure I can pronounce all the medical terms in the book. I read "Old Body Vibration for Seniors" by Becky Chambers. She's the world-leading expert on WBV, or whole-body vibration. And it's basically she gets into how to choose a machine, how to use it, how you start your protocol, and what I loved about it, especially when you get to our age, is more is not better. So, you know, trying to become a weekend warrior is not the best way you want to approach this. But anyway, that's probably the newest thing I'm adding because there are things I can do in 10 minutes with this because I'm always looking for exercise efficiency, and I can do things with this with exercise bands and do things that I can't do with some of the other things I'm using. Let me conclude by this. You know, as Peter Attia talks in his book "Outlive," we're moving to what we call Medicine 3.0. And its essential characteristics are prevention rather than treatment of a disease once it takes hold in your body. And as he talks about in his book, if you do this properly, you start it early enough, you could probably add an extra 10 years to your life. Or even if you're dealing with some of these maladies, you can improve and feel better and help yourself. And so once again, I would really recommend you discuss this with your doctor, which is what I did, because your things, you're going to be doing things that are going to be altering your body's chemistry, you're going to be getting healthier, but you also need to do it and start out slow and in moderation, depending on the state of your health presently. And so, I mean, we've gotten more positive emails where people have said we changed their life by listening to some of the programs we've done. Oh, one other thing, I use devices that monitor, okay, if you have an Apple Watch, you can get your heart rate. But I use, when I'm in my gym, I always wear a heart monitor because I want to stay in my heart zone for just safety reasons. I also use something called a Whoop, which monitors all kinds of activities, gets into more detail. And I also use something called the Oura ring, that's O-U-R-A, to track my sleep. So I know what my sleep patterns are, I know what my deep sleep, and I mean the amount of devices that they're coming out with. And I also use a lot of times an oximeter to measure my oxygen intake. So these little devices, Cris, it's amazing, within the next couple of years, they're going to be able to... You're going to have like a watch-like device that's going to monitor not only your blood pressure, it's going to monitor your blood glucose levels. I mean, the stuff they're coming out with, that's the other thing you, that I like doing. I can monitor the progress of what I'm doing in how my workouts are, what my heart rate is, what my heart zone is, what my oxygen levels are. So I know that I'm doing things correctly and I'm not over-straining and overdoing. So, you know, if you have an Apple Watch, you could probably do a lot of this.
Cris Sheridan:
Yeah, that's for sure. And like you said, you know, the nice thing about many of these different devices that you use and that are available, widely available to a lot of people, they do help in monitoring and making sure that you're staying in that target zone, not going above or below where you want to be, especially given your age. And that's where the conversation with your doctor is going to be key. Just to make sure you're finding the right targets to achieve when it comes to, again, the very important areas that we're discussing: exercise, diet, sleep, and potential use of some of these alternative therapies, if that's red light therapy, saunas, and a number of other areas. So as we close again, I want to point out that we are going to have a long list of links of prior interviews that we've done with some health experts about all of these different things, even red light therapy, saunas, you name it, the Superhuman Protocol, get into the PMF mat and what that does to your mitochondria. So lots of fascinating areas that we have discussed on the show. All of that material is going to be located in the Show Notes section where this interview is located on Financial Sense. So you can click through if any one of those interests you and listen to those where they're located on our website.
Jim Puplava:
Yeah. And once again, if you were going to read one book, I would highly recommend it's currently a bestseller. "Outlive: The Science and Art of Longevity" by Dr. Peter Attia. That's A-T-T-I-A with Bill Gifford. On behalf of Cris Sheridan and myself, we'd like to thank you for joining us here on Lifetime Planning. Until you and I talk again, we hope you have a pleasant week.
