April 25, 2025 – AI and data centers are set to drive a massive surge in U.S. electricity demand, with usage expected to jump 4–5% per year through 2030 and data centers alone consuming up to 12% of total power. Energy expert Robert Bryce explains that natural gas will fill most of this gap, as nuclear expansion lags and renewables struggle with cost and reliability—especially in states like California. Grid infrastructure is under strain, and shortages of key equipment loom. Amid these macro shifts, Bryce sees opportunities in utilities and pipelines poised to benefit from the electrification boom and ongoing reshoring of U.S. industry.
Website: Robert Bryce - Author | Journalist | Public Speaker
Substack column: Robert Bryce | Substack
Juice documentary: How Electricity Explains the World
Key topics discussed:
- AI and Data Centers Driving Demand: AI and cloud data centers are projected to dramatically increase U.S. electricity demand, with data centers expected to consume up to 12% of total power by 2028.
- Natural Gas as the Main Power Source: The majority of new electricity demand will be met by natural gas, not renewables or nuclear, due to speed and scale of deployment.
- Stagnant to Surging Growth: After two decades of minimal demand growth, electricity use is now forecast to grow 4–5% annually through 2030.
- Concentration in Key States: The surge in power demand will be concentrated in a handful of states, including Virginia, Texas, Ohio, and Arizona.
- Challenges for Renewable-Heavy States: States like California face soaring electricity prices, grid instability, and corporate outmigration due to aggressive renewable mandates.
- Nuclear’s Slow Comeback: Despite bipartisan support and new technologies, significant nuclear expansion remains years away in the U.S.
- Global Energy Shifts: China and India are rapidly building both coal and nuclear plants, while Europe grapples with high energy costs and de-industrialization.
- Grid Infrastructure Constraints: Shortages of gas turbines, transformers, and skilled labor threaten to bottleneck grid expansion and reliability.
- Impact of Industrial Reshoring: The return of manufacturing to the U.S. will further strain the grid and add to rising power demand.
- Investment Implications: Utilities and pipeline companies in growth regions are poised to benefit from these macro trends, with rising dividends and growth potential.
Transcript
Jim Puplava:
Well, according to the Department of Energy, data centers are consuming 4.4% of our total electricity. By 2028, that is expected to rise to nearly 12%. And globally, by 2030, electricity demand for data centers is projected to more than double. Where will all this electricity come from? What will power it? Let's find out. Joining us on the program is Robert Bryce. He's an author, journalist, and documentary filmmaker. You know, something that everybody was talking about—electricity. Robert, I guess if we were having this conversation four or five years ago, it was about EVs, the green economy, electric cars. We were going to need more electricity because of charging stations. Along comes AI and cloud. So, let's talk about that. We haven't seen this kind of demand for electricity—you probably have to go back a couple of decades.
Robert Bryce:
Well, it's interesting you say that, Jim, because, yeah, and thanks for having me on. Always happy to come on and talk about these issues. But, yeah, let's look back. Really, between 2001 and 2023, US electric demand growth was less than 1% a year. It averaged about, in fact, seven-tenths of 1% for two decades. And now we have, as you say, all these projections for massive increases in electricity use, much of it driven by AI. A lot of these predictions around EV use have fallen by the wayside because EVs have fallen—or, actually, can I say the EV business is running out of gas? Because it clearly is. Look at the trouble at Tesla, but also the build-out of the EV charging infrastructure hasn't happened. But all of that said, it is very clear when you look at the forecasts that there is a massive expectation of increased electricity use for data centers and AI. S&P Global, just about a month or so ago, put out a prediction that, in fact, US electricity use will jump by 25% by 2030. So, you're talking a 4 to 5% increase per year, annualized, every year between now and 2030, when we've seen less than 1% for 20 years. So, these are big, big increases. And it's also important to recognize, too, that this demand growth will be—it's not going to happen all across the country, Jim. It's going to be very concentrated, and it's primarily in Virginia, Texas, Ohio, Arizona, Georgia, Oregon, Indiana. Just a handful of states are going to be the places where this demand growth is likely going to be the biggest. And some of the biggest is going to be, of course, in Virginia, in Data Center Alley there near Dulles Airport.
Jim Puplava:
Yeah, most people don't realize a lot of the internet is based out of Virginia with all those centers that they have there. And so, it's one of the biggest states. I want to talk about this demand for electricity. A lot of the politicians and states are concerned about these AI cloud data centers—that they draw too much power from the grid, and then you end up getting brownouts or blackouts. And so, what we've seen—I'd like to get your comments on—we've seen, like, Microsoft try to work a deal with a utility in restarting Three Mile Island, where these companies like Microsoft, Amazon, are going directly to companies, whether it's Chevron, making, building natural gas plants, and they'll power it. I'm thinking of Zuckerberg's new data center he's building in Louisiana. He's bought, like, 2,500 acres.
Robert Bryce:
Yeah.
Jim Puplava:
And I think, wasn't it Elon Musk who built something in Virginia, powered it with two natural gas plants? So, let's talk about how this is going to transpire because the politicians are worried about consumers, and yet these data centers—I mean, our whole society is built around these concepts.
Robert Bryce:
Sure. Well, you're right about how this conversation has shifted and the demand. You mentioned Zuckerberg and Facebook or Meta in Louisiana. Now, Entergy is planning to build 2.2 gigawatts—2,200 megawatts—of new gas-fired capacity just to support data center demand from Meta. That's in Louisiana alone. But the key takeaway—and I was in Dallas, I spoke about this—you know, I'm not an investment guy, you're the investment guy. I'm a reporter. But I was asked to speak at this investment conference, and I told them, I said, “I'm not an investment, I'm not a finance guy.” And they said, “We know, just tell us how you see the market.” And what I told them—AI—natural gas demand is going to continue growing. US electricity generation—43.3%, a record amount of US electricity, is now produced from natural gas. And all of this growth in AI is going to be coming from natural gas-fired power plants. All the electricity for AI will come from natural gas-fired power plants. I mentioned Entergy and the Meta thing. What really caught my eye recently was Energy Transfer, which is the biggest pipeline operator in the US. In their latest investor documents, they have this little call-out box about data centers and gas, and they said that they've had requests to connect to 70 data centers in 12 states—70 data centers in 12 states. So, this is just massive potential increases. And, you know, will it unfold? We've already seen some pullback from Microsoft and Amazon, but it's clear there are many gigawatts of gas-fired capacity for data centers—AI—that are already under construction, are going to be built, or are being built and will be deployed. But, you know, is it going to be 5, 10 gigawatts? Is it going to be 30? That remains to be seen.
Jim Puplava:
Robert, what about nuclear power? They're talking about coming out with these modular nukes. We've been using modular nukes on aircraft carriers and submarines for half a century and never had a problem. And it's my understanding, within Congress, there's a consensus within both parties that we have to go nuclear because we used to have 112 nuclear power plants. We're down to about 92 right now.
Robert Bryce:
Yeah.
Jim Puplava:
And I think China's got 25 on the drawing board they're building. I think maybe we have one. So, where are we going with nuclear power, and eventually, will nuclear power replace natural gas for these centers?
Robert Bryce:
Well, yes, I think eventually—and eventually could be a very long time. Let me just give you a couple more quick numbers here, Jim. So, I mentioned S&P Global. They're predicting another 100 gigawatts of gas-fired capacity will be built in the US by 2040. And they're clearly saying in their documents and their projections for data centers that it's going to be gas. Now, let's talk about nuclear. I'm adamantly pro-nuclear. I've been saying the same thing for 15 years: natural gas to nuclear. If we're serious about reducing CO2 emissions and, or, as well as energy security, then, end-to-end, natural gas to nuclear is the way forward. But I'm also very sober and very clear-eyed about what is happening in the nuclear business. And there is not—we today—despite the fact that the US produces more electricity from nuclear power than any other country in the world by far, we get about 19 or 20% of all the electricity in the US generated from nuclear reactors—there is no licensed nuclear reactor under construction today in America. Vogtle 3 and 4 in Georgia, owned by Georgia Power, part of the Southern Company—those projects have been completed, and those reactors are online now. Some of these smart companies are moving dirt, you know, in anticipation of getting a license from the NRC, but that hasn't happened yet. And so, there are a lot of these companies—and, in fact, I've been tracking this for a long time, Jim—there are 42 SMR companies now vying to get into the marketplace, 42 of them. And so, some are publicly traded, like Oklo, which trades under the ticker OKLO, NuScale trades under the ticker SMR, Nano, I think, trades under the ticker NANO. But, you know, which one of these companies is going to succeed? And they're going to be competing internationally with companies like Rosatom and China National Nuclear Corporation. It's a very, very crowded market, and the questions are: Which ones are going to have enough capital to survive? What chemistry are they going to use? What size is going to be the sweet spot in the marketplace? How much are they going to cost, and when are they going to get them built?
Jim Puplava:
You know, this is amazing because we're talking about this here in the US, but let's talk about globally. China is moving ahead with nuclear power plants, coal plants; India's moving ahead. What about Europe? Because they were heavily dependent on Russian natural gas. Germany, the powerhouse of Europe, shut down their nuclear plants, their gas plants, and now they're scrambling to restart their coal-fired plants. What do they do? Because they don't want to fall behind China or the US when it comes to AI.
Robert Bryce:
Well, let me just give you—I'm going to Washington next week, and I'm presenting on some of these issues, and I have some of these numbers at hand, in fact. So, China now is building 29 gigawatts of new nuclear capacity—29 gigawatts, by far more capacity than any other country in the world. About half of all new nuclear capacity globally is being built today in China and India. India is building about five and a half gigawatts. But remember—and just to give you one more set of numbers here—the other key thing is that, yes, China's building about 30 gigawatts of new nuclear, they're building over 200 gigawatts of new coal. So, you know, let's not kid ourselves about what's actually happening in China. And those aren't my numbers; they're the numbers from the International Atomic Energy Agency and Global Energy Monitor. So, these numbers are the numbers. And so, China's build-out for coal is going to be much, much, much greater than its build-out for nuclear. But as far as Europe goes, that's the question: Who's going to be the country that builds the first new capacity? And if I were going to wager, I would say it's probably going to be the French because they have the capacity, they have the engineering talent, they have the companies. But none of this is going to happen quickly. And Europe has a much greater incentive financially to build new nuclear than does the US, and why is that? Simple economics. The price of natural gas in Europe today—I checked TTF, I think it's like $13—whereas Henry Hub now is trading at about $3. US natural gas prices have cratered in the last few weeks. So, that price differential on natural gas is key and one of the key motivators for Europe, as well as, of course, in the wake of the Russia-Ukraine war, where the Russian supplies of natural gas are not as reliable as once thought. So, I'm just looking at TTF here; the front-month contract is trading at $11.38. So, meanwhile, Henry Hub, with the front-month contract today, is at $2.90. So, we have—the US—natural gas is nearly four times cheaper here than it is in Europe. So, they have an incentive because they can't build coal because of the social license. And that's one of the reasons why they're going to build nuclear. But, again, it's going to take time.
Jim Puplava:
So, what about—we're talking about natural gas seems to be the solution in the short term because we're far away from bringing on nuclear power plants, as you mentioned. We don't even have one under construction right now. What about blue states? I think of my own state, Robert—California. We don't like natural gas, we don't like coal. We shut down those plants. We shut down a nuclear power plant at San Onofre. We've got one left that will be decommissioned in 2030. We're going wind and solar. How's that going to work?
Robert Bryce:
It's not. It won't.
Jim Puplava:
That was what I was assuming.
Robert Bryce:
Jim, you live in the land of fruits and nuts. There's no sensibility on any of it. God bless California. I just wrote a piece on my Substack, robertbryce.substack.com, on Gavin Newsom and what's happening in California. California now has, aside from Hawaii, the highest residential electricity prices in the United States of America. I mean, this is not a distinction that you want to have. And not only do you have the most expensive prices, you're in San Diego—on some, during peak times, for some customers in San Diego Gas & Electric service territory, the peak prices are a dollar a kilowatt-hour. I mean, that's just full-on crazy.
Jim Puplava:
I'm fortunate that I’ve got solar panels on my house, so I don't have to deal with that as much. But they keep changing the pricing and the credits on solar, and so they encourage you to get it, but then when you get it, they penalize you for it. So, yeah, I mean, that's how crazy we are. But how does a state like that—at some point, when you're having more and more brownouts, I suppose at some point the population is going to say, “Wait, you've got to fix this. This isn't working.” And we're seeing it more and more. In fact, Robert, explain to me—you are the capital of energy. When I think of energy, oil, natural gas, I think of Texas, the Permian, all the different shale plays there. How did you guys get into a crisis? What was it, the winter of 2021, when you guys had power outages?
Robert Bryce:
Yeah, during Winter Storm Uri. Well, let's revert to California again because I have some of these numbers at hand just to talk about what's going on there, and then let's talk about Texas. But the residential—these are the latest numbers from the Energy Information Administration—residential electricity in California now costs almost 32 cents on average, 32 cents per kilowatt-hour. That's right at twice the national average—2x the national average. Now, this is the first time that I can remember that California's electricity prices have been higher than states in New England because New England generally has had some of the highest electric prices in the continental US, higher than California. So, now you have the distinction of only Hawaii having more expensive residential power prices than California. And what you've seen as well is that electricity prices have risen more on a percentage basis than any other state since 2008, which was when Governor Schwarzenegger mandated renewables. They've also risen more on an absolute basis. So, the increase—just the increase, Jim—in residential electricity prices in California has been 18 cents. That's greater than the average cost of residential power across the country. So, you know, and what are you seeing then in terms of consumption? Electricity use in California has fallen more than that of any other state. So, these are just the kind of statistics you don't want to see. And further, just last year, the California Public Utilities Commission warned that the state’s big investor-owned utilities—that electric rates are going to continue growing faster than inflation through 2027. And I think it's going to be much faster than that, through 2027 and beyond, because of these insane renewable energy mandates and all of these other things that are facing these big investor-owned utilities.
Jim Puplava:
Part of the reason consumption is going down is a lot of companies have been moving out. I mean, you just take Silicon Valley. We've lost Tesla, we've lost Oracle, we've lost Hewlett Packard. So, a lot of companies are moving out of the state, not only just for the cost of living, the taxes, regulation, all the things that you're talking about, but what about some of these states where you're dealing with these issues? How do politicians come to grips with this in terms of maintaining these policies? I mean, Newsom has got to be looking, or somebody's got to be telling Newsom, “We're headed for trouble here.”
Robert Bryce:
Well, I think that's clearly the case. And you're right, a lot of companies are leaving California, and where are they going? A lot of them are coming to Texas, and many of them are coming right here to Austin, Texas, including Tesla, among them, and Oracle, I think, relocated as well. There's a long list of companies that have left California for Texas. One other quick point—and I made this in my article; I think the headline was “Gavin Newsom's Grid Impossible”—in terms of future costs for California on the transmission side, this is what the CAISO, California Independent System Operator, in 2022 estimated: that the cost of the expansion of the high-voltage transmission system in California would cost about $30.5 billion. Two years later, in 2024, just last year, they said it could cost actually as much as $63 billion. So, they doubled that cost estimate just in a span of two years. So, I mean, California is just headed for disaster. And so, to answer your question now, after I'm going around the block here, I think it's clear Newsom wants to run for president and will run for president. I would bet a hundred dollars right now—and I'm happy to wager you if you want to take this bet, Jim, happy to put a Benjamin on the desk right now. But I think he's realizing, “Oh, crap, this is really serious.” And just in the last day or so, he's gone to the state of California, saying, “Hey, these refiners are saying they're going to close. We need to keep them open. What can we do here?” Well, you know, he's realizing a little late what the problems are. Yeah, Chevron moved to Houston.
Jim Puplava:
Yeah, after 130 years in California, they're packing up their bags and moving out of this state. What about—you know, we're talking about AI, we're talking about all this growth in electricity. Let's talk about another factor that's coming in here, and that's called reshoring manufacturing. So, Trump, right—I think the number's up to, like, $5 trillion of investment that's going to come to the US. How are you going to build a factory if you don't have the electricity and the power that is going to run that factory? You build a factory, you're going to need shipping, there's going to be transportation, you're going to need electricity to power. Most of these factories are going to have robotics that are going to make the things that they're going to manufacture. That's another element that is going to add to the demand on the grid for electricity.
Robert Bryce:
Sure. And that's a really good point. And it's going to add strain to a grid where you already see, for instance, just in December, the North American Electric Reliability Corporation, based in Atlanta, warned about electricity shortages, in particular throughout MISO, in the very center part of the country, saying that that area is what they said was at high risk, which means that there's a danger of shortfalls that could occur during normal peak conditions. So, not extraordinary weather, but during normal peak conditions. And MISO covers a massive part of the US, and what did they say? Infrastructure—I'm quoting from what they said, this is their December long-term reliability assessment—infrastructure is not being built fast enough to keep up with the rising demand. So, you have AI, data centers, you've got the reshoring, you've got heat pumps, EVs, all of this increase in potential electricity demand colliding with a grid that I would say is simply not ready for it. And so, this could end in tears. Now, let me jump forward to a thing that could constrain a lot of this investment or a lot of this build-out, Jim. As one person at CERAWeek, when I was in Houston last month, said, what could slow the build-out? She said, “Turbines, transformers, and people.” And that—you know, there's a lack of gas-fired turbines, there's a lack of high-powered transformers, and the labor cost and the labor availability is a key pinch point. So, we can talk about tens of gigawatts of new potential electricity demand, but if we don't have the turbines, transformers, and the people to build the capacity, well, that simply won't be realized. That capacity, that new electricity availability, just simply won't be there.
Jim Puplava:
Yeah, there—I've read several reports that are talking about, you know, it's great that we've got $5 trillion of new investment coming here, but there are three things that it's going to need. It's going to need power and electricity to power these plants. You're going to have to have regulations, so it doesn't take you five years of environmental impact to get a permit to build a plant. And then you're going to have to have some kind of incentive—taxes—like many states. You know, why do companies relocate to Texas? Well, Texas gives them incentives. There's no state income tax in Texas. So, economically, it is more favorable to move to Texas than it is to stay in California.
Robert Bryce:
Sure. And it's a much more business-friendly environment. But, you know, Texas is also facing some of these same challenges in terms of building enough capacity. ERCOT, the Electric Reliability Council of Texas, they're projecting—I mean, some of the numbers they're projecting for the potential growth in demand here in Texas are just full-on crazy town, tens of gigawatts. And I don't have those numbers at hand, but I mean, just enormous amounts of new potential electricity demand because of all the things you just said: companies leaving California, manufacturing coming back, data centers. The Stargate project, which got a lot of press a couple of months ago—they're planning a five-gigawatt data center complex in Abilene, Texas. Five gigawatts. So, these are just, you know, 5,000 megawatts just for a bunch of data centers. You know, they're not stamping out steel or aluminum or anything else. And, you know, now that I'm mentioning those things, it's important to note what's happening in Europe, where you see demand for primary metal production is falling. Europe is de-industrializing because of bad energy policy. And so, that is bad for Europe, potentially good for the US, but we have to make sure we have enough power to go around.
Jim Puplava:
Yeah, somebody needs to talk to Newsom because California isn't building any power plants, and we rely on nuclear power from Arizona. Arizona has two nuclear power plants. But, Robert, in Chandler, Taiwan Semiconductor is building a massive plant. Intel is building a massive plant. Apple is building a massive plant. Once those plants go online, they are going to suck a lot of energy out of those nuclear power plants. And my personal belief—they're not going to be able to have excess power to sell to California because, right now, we're relying on Arizona. I know San Diego is, and I know Los Angeles is, for that extra power that they produce. That's going to be gone in about another year.
Robert Bryce:
Well, and this is the other key: how is this—you know, these cross-border—how much of this cross-border trade is actually going to happen, given the things that you just talked about? And that's one of the issues that's—you know, states in the Midwest, in Indiana, I've been talking to some friends there about all this potential demand that's going to happen there. And in Indiana, which is the biggest steel-producing state in the country—27% of the steel in America comes from Indiana—well, if there's not enough power to go around, what are the smelters going to do? Right? You know, they're competing with data centers. So, the thing that—now, we've talked about a lot about the things that are the potential problems, including transformers, and high-power transformers in particular, because the backlog on those is three, four, five years, depending on the voltage. And the wait times increase with the voltage. So, not just transformers—switch gears, breakers, all the kit that you need to build these things. But these wait times are going to be the critical constraint for a lot of this build-out, and, you know, money will flow to those pinch points. But how soon and how much money remains to be seen because these things take time to iron out.
Jim Puplava:
You know, it's amazing. We live in this high-tech world. We take our iPhones—you look at your iPhone, there's a gazillion apps that you have on your phone. And people don't realize, behind this iPhone, these data centers, and everything that runs everything that's on your iPhone, we're used to, Robert, turning on the lights, flipping on a switch—the lights go on. When you start turning on the light switch, and it doesn't go on, you don't have power. I mean, I am preparing for what's going to happen with Arizona. I have 54 solar panels, and I'm going to be getting Tesla battery walls because, you know, once the sun goes down, I don't have power with solar.
Robert Bryce:
Yeah.
Jim Puplava:
So, I need to back up that power because I see a lot of power shortages coming to California once we lose access to nuclear power from Arizona. So, how many other states are going to be in a similar situation?
Robert Bryce:
Well, I'm with you, Jim. We have a Generac now at our house here in Austin. And we had it put in—well, about almost a year ago. And I'll tell you the conversation—you know, I'm happily married, I'm incredibly lucky in my life. My wife, Lorin, and I have been married 39 years. And I said, “Darling, I met a contractor; I want to put in a Generac.” And she said, “Well, how much is it going to cost?” I said, “About $15,000.” She said, “I don't want to spend that money on a stupid Generac.” And I said, “Well, okay, yeah, I'm kind of with you there.” And then she says, “But if we have a blackout, and we don't have a Generac, you're going to blame me.” So, we now have a Generac. You understand how this works, don't you, Jim? This is the way of the world. But, yeah, I'm with you in that I am—you know, we got blacked out during Winter Storm Uri. And so, I've seen that movie, I don't want to see it again. And I'm going to make sure that, if I can, I'm going to do what I can to make sure we maintain our reliability here.
Jim Puplava:
Well, one of the things that excites us from an investment perspective—we've been accumulating—we've got a couple on the buy list—utilities in these high-tech AI data center states that you talked about, because the growth rate—I mean, we're seeing—I'm thinking of one utility that we own that pays a nice dividend. They're increasing their dividends at 9% a year. I mean, that's—we haven't seen anything like that. You'd have to almost look at a growth stock. And so, some of these utilities are now becoming like growth stocks—reliable, safe, and predictable. So, Robert, you're heading to Washington next week, and what do you hope to convince them of?
Robert Bryce:
Oh, well, I'm speaking to Farmer Mac. It's a lender in agricultural areas. Convince them? I give up on convincing, Jim. I'm just going to present the data. They're not my numbers; they're the numbers. Just giving what I hope is—what I believe I know is—a very sober look at what's going on, both globally and here in the US. But I'll just add one quick point since you talked about investment ideas, and I know a lot of your listeners are interested in that. And one of—they're not utilities, but they act like utilities in many cases—are the pipelines. And that's what—when I presented, you know, I'm not touting these, I don't have any—you know, I don't have a newsletter to sell, but I wrote a piece on Substack. Like I said, I actually do, since I'm on Substack. But, nevertheless, how do you play this? Well, I think it'd be dangerous to play the price of natural gas because it's been so volatile. But the companies that are the toll-takers—the pipelines—make sense to me, and some of them are paying very healthy dividends. Some are MLPs, which have tax advantages. But, given where the electricity market is going, LNG, these macro trends, I'm with you. I don't want something complex; I want something simple. And the pipeline story seems to me pretty simple and understandable and pays a good dividend, which I'm also interested in, given that I'm in my dotage.
Jim Puplava:
Yeah, we own two of the natural gas pipeline companies. Well, listen, Robert, as we close, tell our listeners about your site and tell them about the books and the documentary films that you’ve made—your last one, A Question of Power: Electricity and the Wealth of Nations, your last book, and then your documentary films.
Robert Bryce:
Sure. Well, thank you. Yes, I've written six books. My first book was on Enron. I'm still writing about Enron now, 20-some-odd years later. That book was called Pipe Dreams: Greed, Ego, and the Death of Enron. I've written six books. I have three kids and six books, so I'm pretty proud of that—proud of my kids, proud of all six of my books. The latest one, A Question of Power: Electricity and the Wealth of Nations. I've also co-produced two documentaries. The first is a feature-length documentary called Juice: How Electricity Explains the World. And then, last January, we came out with a docuseries called Juice: Power, Politics, and the Grid, which is a five-part docuseries. You can find that at juicetheseries.com. The first documentary is juicethemovie.com, and then I'm on Substack at robertbryce.substack.com.
Jim Puplava:
Yeah, I highly recommend your latest book and also your documentaries. And can they access—is that free to access right now?
Robert Bryce:
It is, yes. The docuseries is free at juicetheseries.com. Did I mention juicetheseries.com? I hope I mentioned juicetheseries.com, and, yes, that's free. And it's available on YouTube. We've had over 3 million views of the docuseries.
Jim Puplava:
Well, congratulations. You do excellent work. Keep up the good work, and hopefully, some of your thoughts will get delivered to Congress, and they'll start moving in the right direction before it's too late.
Robert Bryce:
Well, from your lips to God's ears, Jim.
Jim Puplava:
Okay. Well, listen, my friend, as always, a pleasure speaking with you. Keep up the great work, and we'll talk to you again in the future.
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